Curse

wuzzman · Apr 26, 2008, 05:57 AM // 05:57

energy management encourages button mashing builds, delete your casters start learning to play warriors and rangers. (I soo said this meta would come a long time ago).

I Angra I · Apr 26, 2008, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Nerfing GoLE when the meta is at 3 warrior frontline, ouch.

If you nerf gole you can buff other defensive skills back to how they originally were, because the whole reason they became used so much/were considered so overpowered in the first place was because of gole supporting them.

erk · Apr 26, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

energy management encourages button mashing builds, delete your casters start learning to play warriors and rangers. (I soo said this meta would come a long time ago).

What a load of crap. Delete Monks eh? Is that what your suggesting? Or do they mysteriously not need button mashing energy management?

Pyro maniac · Apr 26, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

energy management encourages button mashing builds, play rangers

uh ..?

wuzzman · Apr 26, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

What a load of crap. Delete Monks eh? Is that what your suggesting? Or do they mysteriously not need button mashing energy management?

who said delete monks? delete casters obviously meant eles and mesmers (necros too if you still hanging on foul feast plague sending).

erk · Apr 27, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

who said delete monks? delete casters obviously meant eles and mesmers (necros too if you still hanging on foul feast plague sending).

I know, whilst you are touting absurd ideas which wont happen, why not just get rid of secondary profession usage in PvP? That will nail 90% of broken builds in one hit.

TrippieHippie89 · Apr 27, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

i dont get it...how does energy managment promote button mashing?

TrippieHippie89 · Apr 27, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

energy management encourages button mashing builds, delete your casters start learning to play warriors and rangers. (I soo said this meta would come a long time ago).

also, this meta has been around before with slight variants from some skills not being availiable but regardless, heavy physical is not nnew to the meta scene

erk · Apr 28, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrippieHippie89

i dont get it...how does energy managment promote button mashing?

GoLE on a */Elementalist was the original issue, it gives you back about
(10+10)-5=15 energy every 30sec. IF you manage to use it twice in that time. That's equiv. to about one and a half pips of extra energy regen on a caster. That amounts to one extra cast of Reckless Haste or an Aegis every 30sec. which is hardly button mashing!

An example, a year or so ago, a Curses Necro could comfortably cast Reckless Haste -> Price of Failure -> on one warrior and cover with Parasitic Bond and then cast a Faintheartedness -> Parasitc Bond on the other warrior, nowadays with a typical energy pool of 35 it's all gone in that first combo and you have two warriors a Ranger or a Paragon to cover for that less than 12sec Reckless is up. Even with GoLE you can't hope to do it. GoLE doesn't promote button mashing on a Curses Necro for sure, it's just partially compensates for heavy nerfs. The nerfs came in two forms usually both at once, Izzy reduces the duration of spells, and increases the energy cost, a double whammy! In a GvG for example, at the flag stand the deaths are so infrequent that Soul Reaping is not very useful even with Reapers Mark as the elite, though it's ok at VOD when lots are dying. A Curses N/E would be far more useful with just about any other secondary, but is forced /E.

I am sure that there are lots of other examples where energy management has been forced upon casters then just the Curse Necro. In this last update alone the Mes e-denial buffs should highlight that. Overall I hate waisting skill slots on skills that only help energy management.

Zabe · Apr 28, 2008, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrippieHippie89

i dont get it...how does energy managment promote button mashing?

When you got ton of energy you can just 12345678 buttonsmash all your skills all day long. As when you don't, you need to think a bit how to use them.

Good example from this is HA and GvG monks compared to each others. Unlimited energy with channeling, and none or a small energymanagement of GoLE etc.

Kyp Jade · Apr 28, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Good example... mindblast

blast blast blast
rodgorts invocation
blast blast blast
rodgorts invocation
blast blast blast
rodgorts invocation
blast blast blast
rodgorts invocation
blast blast blast
rodgorts invocation

with the occasional utility spell casted somewhere in there such as bflash

Really does no one else see the amount of energy use today vs a couple years ago? Back then you had to be stingy with your energy, put the right spells in the right places. Now its just cast cast cast cast cast.
GW PvP -> WoWlite

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makosi · Apr 28, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Mind Blast/Rodgort spammers and similar builds suffer at the hands of Diversion, Dshot or other anti-spam tools. Energy is just one of many limitations casters face, and ANets deprivation of good energy management skills leaves many skills underpowered because they cannot be used enough, or the skillbars can't pack enough utility to be worthwhile.

GoLE on monks is a substitute for the energy management they have never had from the selection of monk skills. PnH is rubbish (compare: Ether Prodigy), Divine Spirit takes too long to recharge and encourages spam and monk signets are poor.

DreamWind · Apr 28, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Mind Blast/Rodgort spammers and similar builds suffer at the hands of Diversion, Dshot or other anti-spam tools.

Something having a counter does not stop it from being overpowered (oh yea this has been said about 8089080980 times in these forums).

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

GoLE on monks is a substitute for the energy management they have never had from the selection of monk skills.

Monks always needed an energy management skill for about 90% of their existence. The problem with gole is that it is run on basically every caster in the game at the moment. In reality, GW skill costs are all screwed up. You have a situation where there are a ton of ridiculously overcosted skills that only see play because of gole.

makosi · Apr 28, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Something having a counter does not stop it from being overpowered (oh yea this has been said about 8089080980 times in these forums).

I just gave anti-spam as an example. Even stripping Fire Attunement, interrupting one Rodgort's and knocking down will greatly reduce the effectiveness of a MB/Rodgort's spammer. Mind Blast's energy gain and recharge and Rodgort's recharges were nerfed not too long ago so slow down the spamfest. It was overpowered, now it has been reduced to the 'good' category.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Monks always needed an energy management skill for about 90% of their existence. The problem with gole is that it is run on basically every caster in the game at the moment. In reality, GW skill costs are all screwed up. You have a situation where there are a ton of ridiculously overcosted skills that only see play because of gole.

Monks used Offering of Blood, Mantra of Recall and Energy Drain as their e-management before - all of which were nerfed to try to stop monks from having easy access to energy.

I agree that some skills cost too much but GoLE is allowing these skills to see play which isn't such a bad thing. I reckon they should relax the 5, 10, 15 and 25 energy steeping stones (like they did when they made the necro sacrifice skills 1 energy).

It's no wonder why 3 or 4 physical teams have arisen.

Kyp Jade · Apr 28, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Im sorry to say i dont see how

blast blast blast
rodgort
blast blast blast blast
rodgort
blast blast blast
rodgort

is any better now than it was, its still mindless caster spam, the spells themselves mean nothing, the fact that he is always casting something does.
It used to mean something to cast a spell on an ele

erk · Apr 29, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Im sorry to say i dont see how

blast blast blast
rodgort
blast blast blast blast
rodgort
blast blast blast
rodgort

is any better now than it was, its still mindless caster spam, the spells themselves mean nothing, the fact that he is always casting something does.
It used to mean something to cast a spell on an ele

I don't see it conceptually as much different to a Warrior or Paragon building up Adrenaline with auto attack preparing for a spike. Blasting a low energy target is just a method of building up energy, that happens to do a bit under 15dps if you spam it on recharge, about the same as an auto attack on a hammer/scythe/spear without IAS or life steal. Swapping targets/high sets for Mind Blast build up takes a bit of observation to get right, hit the wrong one and your energy goes backwards and you may have to miss the next spike.

Patrick Smit · Apr 29, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Well the difference between the blaster and the warrior is obvious, the warior needs to autoattack to build up his spike. The ele however does not need to blast so much while his energy is high. So he didnt pack any utility or so and is indeed mindlessly spamming. But agree that so long as it does no serious damage spamming is not so terrible. but just bad for player development.

erk · Apr 29, 2008, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Well the difference between the blaster and the warrior is obvious, the warior needs to autoattack to build up his spike. The ele however does not need to blast so much while his energy is high. So he didnt pack any utility or so and is indeed mindlessly spamming. But agree that so long as it does no serious damage spamming is not so terrible. but just bad for player development.

What you say is quite true in a short fast game like RA/TA where the Ele rolls in with a full energy pool trying for a quick kill, in that case he would probably be spamming Rodgorts on recharge, and maybe not even have Mind Blast on the bar and just use double attunements, but in a prolonged battle where starting energy pool is less relevant like GvG, that's when you will most likely see the Mind Blast come into play.